Anybody's Son Will Do is a short doc from the 80's about the techniques used by the US Marines to turn young men into obedient machines designed to kill and die on command.
Was this documentary supposed to make me dislike the military or..... Because i thought everyone knew that war requires men to alienate themselves from their basic humanity. The documentarian at the end blames government, however, seems like he should blame human nature. Does he not know that violence and transgression is because of individuals. I can understand believing the government to be a poor decider where, who, and why we fight. However im damn sure his value system would choose where, who, and why even worse than mine. So..... i guess what im trying to say is..... that kid in the video who quits...... well.... he was a quitter. Lets just hope someday we all have convictions and not pussy as sentiments about how hard the world is and how mean it is to train people to do what most of us lack the fortitude to do. P.S. Also that guy is a tool.
"The documentarian at the end blames government, however, seems like he should blame human nature. Does he not know that violence and transgression is because of individuals."
and I think understand your sentiments. Obviously the individual on the battlefield, if he commits an atrocity, is responsible for it, owns it all for himself. Nothing stands between him, his actions, and God's judgment. And you're right that the documentarian overlooks this individual component. But I think that is becuase its a documentary about the government institution, and ITS contribution to the existence of violence and transgression.
Lumping blame on to the individual's lack of conviction, or rather his willingness to alienate himself from his basic humanity, doesn't account for war entirely. Systems of control exist, like the government, like the military, like propaganda, that help to cause war. What the documentary points to is the military institution bating naive, macho, restless, propagandized, probably uneducated, young men into joining, and then rapidly and with expert technique brainwashing them to become violent unthinking pawns. At least some of the responsibility can be attributed to the institution, as it facilitates and even accentuates the latent depravity in human beings.
The whole point is that the soldiers are brainwashed into ignoring their conscience, for fear of alarming consequences! Tell me, how is this not a frightful thought for someone so zealous about the importance on the individual and his moral/existential nature?
As for fortitude, that is "strength of mind that enables a person to encounter danger or bear pain or adversity with courage", your right, that kid was probably a quitter. He probably didn't believe he was a dispensable pawn in some dastardly war motivated by the profit seeking of the military-industrial complex. He probably thought he was watering the soil of liberty with the blood of patriots, and gave up cuz it was hard.
Lucky for him he pussied out instead of dieing before he ever had the chance to, for example, reckon with God. A horse can have fortitude. A Nazi can have fortitude.
A world with all fortitude and no justice would be bloody hell. It would be all fighting and killing and bombing and raiding and raping and lying and pillaging! It would be war. And all for what?
*Clincher: Let's hope that in the future we don't have institutions the express purpose of which is to absolve unsuspecting youth of their ability to make moral decisions (read: humanity) so that they can more efficiently be used for murder and self-sacrifice, and instead have institutions that nurture their ability to think, question, feel, and live.
Well.... although not as good of a writer i will say: First, at my fault clearly, by individuals being responsible i did not intend the soldiers i intended those individuals or groups of individuals that are responsible for causing and fulfilling threats. Our government may be in more than questionable wars but war itself, as well as the threat of being dominated are what make soldiers and war necessary. It would be a mistake to believe that all war is avoidable. It may all be unhealthy, causing all kinds of ill effects on the soldiers, civilians, and the world at large but aggressive actions that need be met with aggressive actions are not going any where.
Second: I'm gathering that you think only those in the higher Nazi echelon were to blame. Certainly the Nazi's faced even more propaganda then our us soldiers, so they must have been brainwashed even more - right? The moment you turn the individual into a machine that becomes merely re-programed then what do you even mean by: "The whole point is that the soldiers are brainwashed into ignoring their conscience". Whats to say they pay any attention to their consciences at all. Perhaps the military instillation of a conscience that says don't kill non-combatants is an improvement.
By imagining an individual's will and ability to understand and reflect on what he is learning, doing, and being apart of you are only telling me that you yourself are untrustworthy. Perhaps from birth you have been propagandized through your parents who have watched this documentary that all war is wrong. Thus every man who chooses to fight is either evil or brainwashed. I'm not sure how you justify that one.
Further: It seams quite clear that if the us military really wanted to "brainwash" our soldiers, they would use more believable lies. You cant force a man to do what you want but you can trick him. Yelling/making a man miserable can be a great test of whether a mans fortitude can stand up to even being a soldier. It would be nice if no one was to ever be asked to kill but i hope to god the i have the fortitude, and perhaps even the training, to kill a man when he attacks my wife, family, city, state, country, allies, and planet (couldn't help my self). Where do you stand with Germany? Who do we blame? Only Hitler and his regime? The men who operated the gas chambers? The SS? The generals who never killed a man but trained others to do so?
All in all, i guess what I'm saying is that documentarian was obviously brainwashed into thinking that all that had happened while he was in combat was someone else fault. Namely some thing we can all hate. A government. Because some one must be responsible for the evil in the world and after all war is evil. Also i didn't like the cut of his mustache.
BUT.... of course it takes conditioning to kill efficiently. And if it weren't for war we hopefully would not have to go there. Of course the Army takes people who have no place or family or structure and gives them one. One which they may never be willing to let go of even at the price of the hole group being corrupt and alienating them from themselves. But that's a problem with any group: Anarchists, Buddhists, republicans, democrats, Muslims, soccer players, astronauts, and even sometimes oil refinery workers. So perhaps the documentary should have been about either how sad war is, or perhaps how we as individuals should place more importance on ethical behavior. But assuming a large percentage of our population is brainwashed by any system as flawed as our federal government is a stretch at best.
P.S. By calling the kid a pussy I was humorously communicating that he does not have the fortitude to kill. And that if we all lacked the fortitude to kill we would not last long - wrong or right. I realize my initial comments were hasty and unexplained. I don't ever blog comment. Hopefully i was more clear this time around. Also, I love your blog so much I'm being brainwashed by it.
Was this documentary supposed to make me dislike the military or..... Because i thought everyone knew that war requires men to alienate themselves from their basic humanity. The documentarian at the end blames government, however, seems like he should blame human nature. Does he not know that violence and transgression is because of individuals. I can understand believing the government to be a poor decider where, who, and why we fight. However im damn sure his value system would choose where, who, and why even worse than mine. So..... i guess what im trying to say is..... that kid in the video who quits...... well.... he was a quitter. Lets just hope someday we all have convictions and not pussy as sentiments about how hard the world is and how mean it is to train people to do what most of us lack the fortitude to do. P.S. Also that guy is a tool.
ReplyDeleteYou say
ReplyDelete"The documentarian at the end blames government, however, seems like he should blame human nature. Does he not know that violence and transgression is because of individuals."
and I think understand your sentiments. Obviously the individual on the battlefield, if he commits an atrocity, is responsible for it, owns it all for himself. Nothing stands between him, his actions, and God's judgment. And you're right that the documentarian overlooks this individual component. But I think that is becuase its a documentary about the government institution, and ITS contribution to the existence of violence and transgression.
Lumping blame on to the individual's lack of conviction, or rather his willingness to alienate himself from his basic humanity, doesn't account for war entirely. Systems of control exist, like the government, like the military, like propaganda, that help to cause war. What the documentary points to is the military institution bating naive, macho, restless, propagandized, probably uneducated, young men into joining, and then rapidly and with expert technique brainwashing them to become violent unthinking pawns. At least some of the responsibility can be attributed to the institution, as it facilitates and even accentuates the latent depravity in human beings.
The whole point is that the soldiers are brainwashed into ignoring their conscience, for fear of alarming consequences! Tell me, how is this not a frightful thought for someone so zealous about the importance on the individual and his moral/existential nature?
As for fortitude, that is "strength of mind that enables a person to encounter danger or bear pain or adversity with courage", your right, that kid was probably a quitter. He probably didn't believe he was a dispensable pawn in some dastardly war motivated by the profit seeking of the military-industrial complex. He probably thought he was watering the soil of liberty with the blood of patriots, and gave up cuz it was hard.
Lucky for him he pussied out instead of dieing before he ever had the chance to, for example, reckon with God. A horse can have fortitude. A Nazi can have fortitude.
A world with all fortitude and no justice would be bloody hell. It would be all fighting and killing and bombing and raiding and raping and lying and pillaging! It would be war. And all for what?
*Clincher: Let's hope that in the future we don't have institutions the express purpose of which is to absolve unsuspecting youth of their ability to make moral decisions (read: humanity) so that they can more efficiently be used for murder and self-sacrifice, and instead have institutions that nurture their ability to think, question, feel, and live.
ReplyDeleteWell.... although not as good of a writer i will say: First, at my fault clearly, by individuals being responsible i did not intend the soldiers i intended those individuals or groups of individuals that are responsible for causing and fulfilling threats. Our government may be in more than questionable wars but war itself, as well as the threat of being dominated are what make soldiers and war necessary. It would be a mistake to believe that all war is avoidable. It may all be unhealthy, causing all kinds of ill effects on the soldiers, civilians, and the world at large but aggressive actions that need be met with aggressive actions are not going any where.
ReplyDeleteSecond: I'm gathering that you think only those in the higher Nazi echelon were to blame. Certainly the Nazi's faced even more propaganda then our us soldiers, so they must have been brainwashed even more - right? The moment you turn the individual into a machine that becomes merely re-programed then what do you even mean by: "The whole point is that the soldiers are brainwashed into ignoring their conscience". Whats to say they pay any attention to their consciences at all. Perhaps the military instillation of a conscience that says don't kill non-combatants is an improvement.
By imagining an individual's will and ability to understand and reflect on what he is learning, doing, and being apart of you are only telling me that you yourself are untrustworthy. Perhaps from birth you have been propagandized through your parents who have watched this documentary that all war is wrong. Thus every man who chooses to fight is either evil or brainwashed. I'm not sure how you justify that one.
Further: It seams quite clear that if the us military really wanted to "brainwash" our soldiers, they would use more believable lies. You cant force a man to do what you want but you can trick him. Yelling/making a man miserable can be a great test of whether a mans fortitude can stand up to even being a soldier. It would be nice if no one was to ever be asked to kill but i hope to god the i have the fortitude, and perhaps even the training, to kill a man when he attacks my wife, family, city, state, country, allies, and planet (couldn't help my self). Where do you stand with Germany? Who do we blame? Only Hitler and his regime? The men who operated the gas chambers? The SS? The generals who never killed a man but trained others to do so?
All in all, i guess what I'm saying is that documentarian was obviously brainwashed into thinking that all that had happened while he was in combat was someone else fault. Namely some thing we can all hate. A government. Because some one must be responsible for the evil in the world and after all war is evil. Also i didn't like the cut of his mustache.
BUT.... of course it takes conditioning to kill efficiently. And if it weren't for war we hopefully would not have to go there. Of course the Army takes people who have no place or family or structure and gives them one. One which they may never be willing to let go of even at the price of the hole group being corrupt and alienating them from themselves. But that's a problem with any group: Anarchists, Buddhists, republicans, democrats, Muslims, soccer players, astronauts, and even sometimes oil refinery workers. So perhaps the documentary should have been about either how sad war is, or perhaps how we as individuals should place more importance on ethical behavior. But assuming a large percentage of our population is brainwashed by any system as flawed as our federal government is a stretch at best.
P.S. By calling the kid a pussy I was humorously communicating that he does not have the fortitude to kill. And that if we all lacked the fortitude to kill we would not last long - wrong or right. I realize my initial comments were hasty and unexplained. I don't ever blog comment. Hopefully i was more clear this time around. Also, I love your blog so much I'm being brainwashed by it.